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Various Community development: Project DRIVE (working title)

Discussion in 'Driving & Racing Games' started by TDUZoqqer, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Actually no, as this kind knowledge (visual scripting) won't help me in the future whatsoever. I do it in the first place to replace TDU for the community (and hoped to get involved with some people at developing the game and bring in ideas), as there is wage interest in doing so (don't blame you) I do it mostly for fun. Although I might just spend not my whole free time with it, but only partly, when I feel the need to :) I belive a lot in Speeder's project, and I don't want the forum to have two people doing the same thing independently.

    Still, I'm gonna show a WIP video later :D
  2. Diablo

    Diablo Administrator
    tduck team Admin

    Do what you feel is best for you mate. Have you and @Speeder talked about collaborating on the one project in some way?
    TDUZoqqer likes this.
  3. Speeder

    Speeder Well-Known Member

    I fail to see how both project are incompatible.
    Plus your work on UI looks pretty great, it would be a waste to throw that away don't you think? :)
    TDUZoqqer likes this.
  4. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Never said it isn't, I personally just see more potential in your project when I overflew your Trello and realized eventhough we are both in the same boat, I didn't even have had half of it on my list (about all the rendering tech) :D And like said, C++ is the way to go for games, and I don't even have a basic idea how code I doubt I'd be very much of a help. Nontheless, I never said I'm abandoning it my project (I spent way too much time on it to throw it away), I just don't quite see the point of me standing in your way on the path to a TDU successor, I'm there to help if you need anything! I guess I just became a bit tired of my game for now :D You have to know I am almost nonstop coding (well, node baded, but still) since the beginning of the year.

    BTW the UI of the videos is very outdated, I got a sleek new design in a different side project I created, more on that later

    I'm off to recording now by the way!

    PS: We need proper car sounds! That's actually the main reason I am a bit ashamed of showing you the progress :D :D I have various dyno videos downloaded, but I always sucked at sound modding.
  5. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Here's the video! As it was a ton to write, please take a moment to read it. I tried to keep it short, but didn't really succeed, I have to admit.

    Alllright, so what kind of progress can you see here:

    First of all - all-new physics.
    Raycast model, based on suspension points instead of wheel center points.
    The physics model might be familiar to some - it's basically the same TDU used. Well, just more fresh, obviously. I mean, there are 12 years of a difference in the engine.

    As you can see, the suspension works, same as turning, handbrake, brakes in general, torque application and slip/grip on the wheels/tires.

    Gearbox works just fine. It is totally adjustable with an infinite (I think 64 is the maximum) amount of total gears with real gear ratios. You can have 15 reverse gears if you desire, just as an example.

    Amount of wheels is not hardcoded, although with the current setup it only takes up up to 6 individual wheels. Adding wheels is a one-time matter of two minutes and will be saved for the whole game.

    Also, as we all know from TDU, my project is also mostly Database- and reference-based. You can add a new car within two minutes.

    Force application works through a torque curve. I like to work with 250 rpm steps, but a real torque curve will give you realistic results. That's what I aimed for mostly.
    As you can see, with a real torque curve, and all the other data - my M3 goes the realistic top speed of 275-280.

    Wheels are also placed in a database. Add new wheels, with a new model and the tire grip. Switch out the wheels within seconds. This was really useful for me, as I am planing on make a customization level into the project later. More on that later.

    Brakes are also seperate. Brake discs and calipers are all completely interchangeable. When you want to put in red Brembos on the stock CSL wheel - go for it! Braking values will be in the same entry.

    RPM needs some tweaks. Still haven't figured out how to make the revs jump at the limiter, but I'll figure it out soon I hope.

    Also, donuts are hard to make, maybe because of the low torque of the M3 example, maybe I just can't see it because of the plain world without tire skids, but I think it's not really working. Need to see if I can do anything about it.

    Sticking on the database - colors, interior colors and caliper colors are all in a database file. My paint material is a clear coat metallic, with a fresnel color change. For the non technicians of you - it means, you can make metallic and flip flop colors easy as cake with just two different colors in the database.
    Also in the database - coat roughness. Make the color shiny or matte (or anything in between) with one different number.

    Back to the functionality - Lighting system works completely. Headlights - parking markers, lowbeam, highbeam, highbeam flash (ohh TDU nostalgia) and fog lights - everything works. And of course, the turning signals. Left, right and hazard, all is working (on keyboard).

    Outside on the level you can see the "lookaround-area". This is pretty much Forza's Autovista, where it loads up a high LOD of the model (which obviously is not displayed when you actually drive the car) and lets you see the car from outside. I most likely won't make trunk and bonnet work, though.
    You can open doors, turn your wheels, enable all lights and indicators etc. I think it's pretty cool.

    Also, window switches will be put in soon, so you can lower and rise your windows while driving.

    You probably already read about my license plates idea. If not, it's some posts ago. Where I explain about vanities and temporary plates.

    The sound is temporary and was taken from the Wiesmann MF3 from TDU. I create the sound ques with FMOD Studio.

    Headlight will toggle with daytime automatically when it gets darker, you can disable the light anyway though, if you want to drive stealth, or with headlight at daytime like a douche (just joking).

    Mileage and fuel consumption will be generated and saved into the savegame. Don't you dare to put your car in the garage with an empty fuel tank, it will take revenge on you the next time you will play.

    I will put in a paint booth (most likely a wrap-booth, we have 2018, nobody repaints their ferraris anymore) in later. I had one in the early concept in october last year, but those were all concepts.
    Also in the paint booth - caliper and leather color changes. Let me know if you want a special shop for it, for more realism. You can either repaint in OEM colors, or put on custom color wraps. Who didn't ever want a chrome pink Huracan? (well, I didn't, but thats another story).

    Speaking of shops - customization shop and car dealer are planed. The tuner was in the concept, and will be worked on a bit later. As for the car shop, I want to add some more cars to test it.
    The customization shop will make you change based on real life parts (if available on the slot):
    -window tint
    -details I have not thought out completely yet

    Performance tuning is totally possible, although this will come into development at a later date.

    As for the car dealer, I have a special idea. The car dealer will obviously be a place for you to buy (and testdrive) cars you want.
    To solve the problem which occurs right now with the car packs for TDU: the dealers will only have a reasonable car selection available in the shop. The so called "presentation examples". When you testdrive the examples, they will have a dealer plate. That's the only time you will see those in the game.
    Those will spawn (depending on brand) in random configurations in the shop. If you desire to buy this model with a different spec, or you want to go for a different model which is not displayed in the shop - you can use the configurator in the shop.
    It's basically an extra "game in a game" where you can load up the car model you want to have and spec it with real configuration options the real brand offers.
    Note, that this will be only a thing with cars which are available on the market at the moment. You won't be able to configure this CSL, for instance. You will need to go to the "online-used cars" (which will be generated randomly) and hope that your car will be available there to buy.
    If it isn't - you can drop a search request at your dealer - which will charge you extra fee, but you will get a car in a short amount of time.

    You will be able to store your cars in a garage. For now, I created a debug underground parking garage, and (not programmed yet) you can park your cars in specific areas there, and see them all altogether, as long they fit inside. That's pretty much the same as in TDU, although my plan is, that you can get in the car and drive out if your garage fluently, without "applying car" and spawn outside the garage all of the sudden. You will be able to walk around as a human in a garage, aswell.

    I am planing on adding a photomode to the game, although I don't really know how yet, as I never actually coded anything in this direction yet.

    Working aero parts on cars. In realistic scenarios. You can switch to manual toggles for the "main" parts (eg when cars have multiple moving parts you will be able to control the important ones. I am looking forward for the Huayra flaps, they are going to be fun.

    I still have to think about how to put in money value to the game. I thought about earning 100k each hour playing. Maybe more, I don't know, I'm open for suggestions. I will most likely not put in races to the game. Not yet.

    I don't know how yet.
    Next question please

    I don't have a model of the environment yet. I want to make the city to drive in a scale version of my city - Berlin. It would be open world. I think it offers many different, interesting environments. Also the Autobahn. What would germany be without it.

    I have three basic AI traffic cars in the game yet. Two of them 100% scratch made. I am planing on bringing in 15-20 traffic cars - most of it civilian, the other parts utility and commercial. They are controlled with a special AI controller making the cars follow invisible splines on the road. It's quite an oldschool, trashy and barely working solution, but I didn't spent too much time on AI yet.
    The police car will act as a police car and chase you when you're over the speed limit, or do random vehicle controls in free roam. Still a concept, but all the sirens and lights on it work as in real life already.

    Rain and fog will be a thing. Wipers will toggle automatically.

    Also, dirt will get on your car. Car wash areas will be in, aswell.

    So, yeah, that's pretty much all I could get up with about telling you about the current state and the concept at the moment. If you got any questions, let me know! I definitly forgot some points, I apologize for that, but the sheer amount of ideas I have drives me crazy. If you cheeky programmers have an idea for more features, or can help me with the existing ones, please do so. One-man-armying isn't fun in the long run.
    #45 TDUZoqqer, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited by TDUZoqqer: Feb 28, 2018
    Diablo and Djey like this.
  6. Ryzza5

    Ryzza5 Notable Member

    Just watching the video and it looks alright, just slap in some netcode (borrow from TDU Project Paradise community server???) and a tropical island and it's ready to ship, haha.

    Germany would be an interesting area, especially if you were able to include something inspired of the Black Forest mountain roads in addition to Berlin. I've played some of the Cobra 11 'Crash Time' car games on Steam and enjoyed those.
    #46 Ryzza5, Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited by Ryzza5: Mar 1, 2018
    TDUZoqqer likes this.
  7. Djey

    Djey Well-Known Member

    Eden Games' Homeland
    That's quite a great return of experience for upcoming projects. Thanks.

    Personally I'd like to get free time to help on these. I've got my own MMOR project as well, it's nothing but some scratch notes somewhere...
    TDUZoqqer likes this.
  8. Diablo

    Diablo Administrator
    tduck team Admin

    @TDUZoqqer I am impressed with what I already see in the video. You clearly are making sure to pay attention to the details and the video shows this with the whole lighting options and the ability to take a look into the car. I also liked the little nod to TDU with the use of a certain vehicle. Was cool to see that brought up to date so to speak. As for everything you have listed and spoke about above, it all sounds just like what people would love to see from a game like this and your forward thinking in regards to customisation and a modern-day wrap shop is on the money too.

    The home ideas all sound good too and it's these sort of optional min-details that set titles apart from one another and so if you get it to work like you want, it would be great.

    It's going to be quite something watching how this project progresses.

    @Djey Haha another one?! Damn, you guys are like buses.
    Djey and TDUZoqqer like this.
  9. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Oh I wish :D But honestly, the game is already at a state I have not expected to achive (so quick). Not saying it's insanely good for the amount of time - real Unreal devs will laugh at me really hard - but as I started in like, september or so, with absolutely 0 knowledge except how do I put in a cube into the scene, I think it's quite something.

    Good point! Haven't actually thought about that. I just know that here in Berlin and in the county Brandenburg which is around the town, the elevation is almost flat. Half of germany, mostly the nothern part is flat as paper, so I haven't thought about mountains. But as it's a game, at the end of the day, who will stop me from putting in a piece of land which is geographicaly totally wrong :D

    No problem, I might hit you and Speeder up in future when I decide to start actual coding. Sooner or later the day will come where I will need that, and I am scared of that day to be honest. I tried some thing in JS, back when I looked around in Unity, (a year ago? two?), but after two weeks I still couldn't code a single line. Oh well. :D Tell me the secret of learning code

    Thanks! Yeah I (unfortunately) care a lot about correct details, memories about my modding schedule for TDU, huh? :D
    Jokes aside, I think a game with bad details is a bad game. You can only imagine how much time I spent on this M3 alone. The fact, that I've made the bulbs in the indicators glow in 3DS Max and the reflector beneath it in chrome, just to render it out and use it as a mask for correct light distribution in the reflector is just one example of how crazy I am about such little details. Also a good friend of mine has an E46 M3, and oh boy, I should have not shown him the model. :D He pointed out a dozen of wrong details just by looking at three screenshots. Have you realized the rims are wrong? That those are the 1M / M3 E92 GTS wheels, and not the ones from the M3 E46 CSL? No? Well, I didn't know the difference either, but there is. Still need to fix it.

    The TDU dummy car seemed to be the perfect.. well.. Dummy car for me to test things. I mean, not that I can hide my roots anyway. I just thought a "refresh" of the model, with all the features working the actual TDU have missed, that would be perfect.

    I researched a week before I started developing what cool features my dream game should have. Turns out those are the exact features some friends of mine, which never played TDU, also wanted in a car game. I've added even more, actually. And it's still counting. I will give my best not to loose track of it.

    About the wrap thing, yeah, I mean, it's basically nothing different than a paint shop. I still need to figure out how (and most importantly IF!) I will make a sticker shop into the game. Like TDU2 had, eventhough I don't know if it wouldn't be overkill. I think custom vinyls aren't really a thing in the modern car world anymore. But as it's still a room for creativity, I need to make my mind about that in the future.

    Still need to figure out how exactly I will make it work. But I will make sure that it will work, hopefully exactly like I described.

    Thanks :) I'm gonna keep you updated as soon as I have something.

    PS: Nothing really exciting happened today. Just added an RPM limiter and fixed the 3D model. Still need to make wipers and dirt work on the car. Ugh.

    EDIT: Oh, and I now imported a LOD mesh to the M3. It's a new task in the pipeline. That means, LOD3 for all the Forza models out there. I will make cars below 50k polys not get any LOD meshes, to save me some time, and for all the Forza models there are LODs anyway. Custom made bodykits won't be scaled either. Hope this won't cause too many issues and framedrops later on.
    The only thing which makes me worry about is the dirt map for ever car.. AND for their LODs. Fml.
    #49 TDUZoqqer, Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited by TDUZoqqer: Mar 1, 2018
    RACER-N3ZX9R ™ and Ryzza5 like this.
  10. JPTH

    JPTH TDU Veteran

    It will take a very long time to this game be finished, but im sure if is finished will be much better than TDU, gran Turismo and Forza... Good luck and have fun!
  11. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    I doubt it will ever be "finished" at all, I will release a "playable" version, and update it further and further :) Thanks
    RACER-N3ZX9R ™ and JPTH like this.
  12. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Hello fellow ducks, I started working on the non-mockup customization system. It is far away from being finished, but it's working really well already, eventhough it took me quite some time and nerves to figure out two bugs I had prior (which I fixed after I realized I had a wrong event trigger applied.. Well..)

    That's what it looks like at the moment. It's globalized with a database, so it will work for every single car I add (in theory) without any complications or hour-long adjustments. :)

    PS: I took the Mercedes G-Wagon as an example, as I have many parts done for it over time I can use for testing. I could have used the M3 aswell, but I don't have any customization done for it just yet.
  13. Diablo

    Diablo Administrator
    tduck team Admin

    It's looking good and coming along well. :cool:

    Good to hear that the implementation seems to be fairly universal and therefore result in few problems. (that's the dream anyway!)
  14. africolombiano

    Wow TDUZoqqer!! I have been out of it for a bit, focusing on my studies but this project seems amazing. I have no modding or coding or any skills with PC's except playing games, but if I can help in any way...
    TDUZoqqer likes this.
  15. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Aww, thank you! Glad you like it! :) No problem in terms of not being able to help in this matter, it helps me already to know people are actually liking what I do, that gives me a lot of motivation.

    And your post comes quite handy, as I got some updates.

    In short - I f...ed up my physics. I don't know how this could happen or what is wrong, really, as it came out of nowhere. I changed my setup slightly (I will talk about it later in the post), which actually didn't change anything in the recieving of the values of the physics. Resetting didn't work aswell, so I'm quite lost here.
    I investigated all my setup without results, as mainly it could be caused by many factors, aswell as not a single one.
    In particular, my cars are now unstable, way slower and braking ONLY with the rear wheels which causes them all to slide away on braking, especially my G-Wagon mammouth likes to flip over now. No idea what's wrong. If anyone has an idea how to car physics, please let me know. Still gonna try to fix the issue, in case I will, I will post another update.

    About the change of setup - it's all about wheels and database. I now have an extra database for the wheels, as later in progress there will be an option to change the wheels. It previously was setup so that the wheels are specially made for one car - in particular, the wheel database had values of grip values, if the wheel is turning by steering and affecting at handbrake, aswell as particular wheel bone names for the parent car. Now those values are in the car slot database itself, which makes it easy to just put different wheel meshes on. Gonna make a tire database later on, to change tires aswell. Eg, slicks which give more grip and so on.
    Wheel sizes, and of it resulting tire width and aspect ratio are all read from a dropdown menue now. I have to setup individual aspect ratio sizes for the wall size manually yet, as the size for every single aspect ratio is different, and in case you doesnt know, the size is calculated by tire width/100*aspect ratio. I have aspect ratios from 15 to 95 and widths from 155 to 405 in the database, so calculating them individually will take quite some time for now. Oh well. Gonna do it later when I have more rims ingame I guess.

    Also, ability to change rim colors is there now. It's not working in the paintshop yet, but it's setup and ready to be implemented ingame. So that's something.
    Customizing menue is working neatly for the body shop now. It has all kind of extra tuning parts, aswell as extra parts for particular vehicles, eg. impact bars for the G-Wagon and stuff. Bodykits work too now, which removing and adding parts which do not work/work only with the kit. That's quite cool imo, because it took FOREVER to setup correctly.

    All in all, works great yet. Only the physics are killing me. Might need to redo some stuff, as I really have no single idea how to car physics. Playing Forza all day to figure out how they solved some problems I have.

    Also, have a basic idea how to rain shader, but nothing seems to work "good" as for now. I'm on it, still.

    I will keep you updated as far as I have any news to show :)

    EDIT: Oh, I've fixed it. Apparently my physics don't like the 23 inch Brabus wheels I put on my G-Wagon.
    #55 TDUZoqqer, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited by TDUZoqqer: Apr 18, 2018
    Djey likes this.
  16. insaneone

    insaneone me, myself & I
    tduck team

    Trial and error! I live by it. It is kind of annoying when you revert and the error is still there but in the end it's there because something changed, even if you forget about it. Glad you got it fixed, mate.
  17. TDUZoqqer

    TDUZoqqer Well-Known Member

    Yeah exactly, trial and error is the key. Had to learn it the hard way lol

    Anyway, as I 1) don't have much time to work on the game now, 2) i tend to make the easy stuff when I DO have time (wheels) and 3) wheels take forever to finish for the game (4 hours roughly, with rendering textures and uv mapping and stuff), I only got a little visual "update".


    What you can't see here, the CSL slot has 3 different type of wheels ingame now, in particular Styling 67 18 inch (the one in the pic), 19 inch (the original "stock" wheels of the CSL / M3 Facelift) and the CSL wheels.
    What can we take from this picture - the 18 inch 67ers look terrible on the CSL :D :D

    Trynna make the plate shop or paint shop work in the near future from now. Stay tuned

    EDIT: Oh, and the G-Wagon has 27 factory colors now. Oops.
    Djey and Milli like this.

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