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  1. Ozzmcom is offline BBW-ingame
     
    Location: X
    Posts: 4,726

    #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loek »
    It makes sense in this case... it's easy searching the internet for bugs and errors but I've actually been playing the game and the only "errors" I've seen were deliberatly found. Sure it's not good that a game has errors but exploiting them from the sideline is odd, if you had actually played the game you would know those little errors can't bother anyone when you're doing what FM7 is about: racing.
    that'd be a good point except they didn't really put that much effort into racing. No pit management, no raceflags, no teams, no coms, no safety cars heck there isn't even a qualifying lap option and a poorly designed career mode once again. It'd be fine charging $60 for someone who didn't own fm6, but if you're gonna recycle 80% of your previous game, don't sit there and expect people not to call you out on your bugs/errors when you're charging 100% of the list price.


  2. hassan1995 is offline ( •_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)
     
    Location: Somewhere
    Posts: 2,775

    #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzmcom »
    that'd be a good point except they didn't really put that much effort into racing. No pit management, no raceflags, no teams, no coms, no safety cars heck there isn't even a qualifying lap option and a poorly designed career mode once again. It'd be fine charging $60 for someone who didn't own fm6, but if you're gonna recycle 80% of your previous game, don't sit there and expect people not to call you out on your bugs/errors when you're charging 100% of the list price.
    You're really pissy about people paying full price for a game that they will enjoy when you spent near £70 on a shark card for a yacht in gta, top value for money comments from you ozz, will definitely take it into consideration.

    --- Post Updated ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    Now, allow me to disagree. To me, in racing, you actually need to change your tires to rain compound when it starts to rain. And back it to dry, once the rain is done. That has a big role on a racing matter. And anyone who actually played on a competition level above offline races against AI knows that. Specially on games that have dynamic weather.

    Second, a game today is more than just racing, if you only cared about racing, why are you playing Forza at all? If racing is the only thing that matters for you in a racing game, i'd suggest to get iRacing, rFactor or Assetto Corsa.

    Third, there are countless negative reviews about this game, also a lot of complains about it's own fanbase, which Turn 10 themselves recognized it.

    And forth, there are countless reviews about the game, which i have watched, if you really think that playing the game would completelly change what someone thinks about a game, you're completelly wrong. I had an opinion about Forza 6 before play it, and it remained the same after i played it. (Actually, it got worse for Forza 6 after i played it, but that's other subject)

    But, again, to focus the argument back to it's topic, this thread is not about Forza being a bad game, it's about it being worse than Forza 6. Many problems that Forza 7 do have, which you don't need to look much deep to find, were unexistent in Forza 6. If you could name, exactly where Forza 7 is better than Forza 6, please do so. Other than having dynamic weather, i can't see where it is.

    Edit: And on a more personal level about the bugs. The bugs themselves are not what the major problem, the major problem is the lack of care. Those mistakes shown in the videos are simple things, that could be easily fixed in less than 5 minutes, and yet they seem to not care at all. And i think that's really wrong thing to do, if you're a developer as huge as Turn 10.
    Don't knock it until you've tried it...


  3. Loek is offline Alleged estate fetishist
    Location: The Netherlands
    Posts: 631

    #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    Now, allow me to disagree. To me, in racing, you actually need to change your tires to rain compound when it starts to rain. And back it to dry, once the rain is done. That has a big role on a racing matter. And anyone who actually played on a competition level above offline races against AI knows that. Specially on games that have dynamic weather.

    Second, a game today is more than just racing, if you only cared about racing, why are you playing Forza at all? If racing is the only thing that matters for you in a racing game, i'd suggest to get iRacing, rFactor or Assetto Corsa.

    Third, there are countless negative reviews about this game, also a lot of complains about it's own fanbase, which Turn 10 themselves recognized it.

    And forth, there are countless reviews about the game, which i have watched, if you really think that playing the game would completelly change what someone thinks about a game, you're completelly wrong. I had an opinion about Forza 6 before play it, and it remained the same after i played it. (Actually, it got worse for Forza 6 after i played it, but that's other subject)

    But, again, to focus the argument back to it's topic, this thread is not about Forza being a bad game, it's about it being worse than Forza 6. Many problems that Forza 7 do have, which you don't need to look much deep to find, were unexistent in Forza 6. If you could name, exactly where Forza 7 is better than Forza 6, please do so. Other than having dynamic weather, i can't see where it is.

    Edit: And on a more personal level about the bugs. The bugs themselves are not what the major problem, the major problem is the lack of care. Those mistakes shown in the videos are simple things, that could be easily fixed in less than 5 minutes, and yet they seem to not care at all. And i think that's really wrong thing to do, if you're a developer as huge as Turn 10.
    Forza is atm the best combination of graphical quality, car variety and realistic racing. Things like realistic pistops don't matter to me becaude you're spending 95% on a track and that 5% (15 seconds) is what you want to be spending effort on? And that changing compound is irrelevant too: tires almost don't change the handling. How do I know? I play the game.
    I don't know if you're deliberatly finding negative articles but every review I've read so far was mostly positive. So even if reviews are your point of reference, it's no reason to be so negative about everything.


    FH3 on Xbox. Xbox username is PoIestar, with a capital "i" as "L". Wanna add me, you're welcome to do so.

  4. Ozzmcom is offline BBW-ingame
     
    Location: X
    Posts: 4,726

    #64

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    no I have a problem with devs not people who pay the money. Not only they're whoring out the franchise with a new game every year, they got so greedy to the point where it started to hurt the brand. with this much resources the game could be a lot better. I guess thank god we have people defending the game till death rite?

  5. TimBud is offline brmm
     
    Location: UK
    Posts: 2,978

    #65

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    Its all becoming very COD and thats put me off massively.
    That and I played the demo and got so bored that I didn't even finish the first race. It just felt exactly the same with just a tiny bit more razzle dazzle.


  6. hassan1995 is offline ( •_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)
     
    Location: Somewhere
    Posts: 2,775

    #66

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    Edit: nope can't be bothered explaining to walls.
    Last edited by hassan1995; 1 week ago at 08:44 AM.


  7. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,482

    #67

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    Guys, you're being way too emotional about this. Digging things from the past to validate your argument? Really? Trying to make someone "less" in order to make your argument valid? Can't you have a decent debate with someone who really doesn't share your opinion?

    I will be a bit rude now, but maybe this will get things straight, i honestly don't care why you like the game, you have your own reasons to, and that is fine. The whole point of the thread is to compare it with Forza 6, and i asked in my previous post, in where exactly Forza 7 is better than Forza 6. Nobody explained me that yet, it is more important to say why you like it instead of list the things it's actually better than Forza 6?

    Again, why and where is it better than Forza 6?


    Now, @Loek, i knew Forza tires didn't change at all, and that is exactly what made my opinion about Forza 6 gets worse than it was when i played it. I am sorry, but tire compound should make A LOT of difference in any racing game. And i knew Forza 7 wouldn't be different.
    @hassan1995, so you don't knock any car you don't like, because you haven't tried, you don't know... You never drove them.


    And to be fair, apparently i played Forza 7, which is like Forza 6 remastered.

  8. Loek is offline Alleged estate fetishist
    Location: The Netherlands
    Posts: 631

    #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    Again, why and where is it better than Forza 6?
    Why not find a review on the internet and answer it yourself?
    Last edited by Loek; 1 week ago at 16:42 PM.


    FH3 on Xbox. Xbox username is PoIestar, with a capital "i" as "L". Wanna add me, you're welcome to do so.

  9. carlos_69 is offline OMG EVO
      
    Location: Portugal
    Posts: 1,172

    #69

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    Seeing the argument above i can say I have to agree with Milli in regards to the tires and rain.

    It's a risk you have to take, do i stay with slicks or change to wet, is it a passing light drizzle or a incoming rainstorm like GT6 where a race could be lost or won with that decision.

    There isn't that kind of fear in FM7 and that for me was a bit of a let down but let's face it they are still playing with the idea and they are playing it safe.

    One thing that i'm afraid of is that Forza becomes GT in the sense that the same basic content with some new features.

    By Jeremy Clarkson:
    A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.
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  10. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,482

    #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loek »
    Why not find a review on the internet and answer it yourself?
    I looked for reviews, but none says it is better than Forza 6.

    You are the one saying it is, can't you tell me?

  11. Loek is offline Alleged estate fetishist
    Location: The Netherlands
    Posts: 631

    #71

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    I could, but you will disagree with me anyway so I don't see a reason why I should. The reviewers seem to be way more convincing to you.


    FH3 on Xbox. Xbox username is PoIestar, with a capital "i" as "L". Wanna add me, you're welcome to do so.

  12. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,482

    #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loek »
    I could, but you will disagree with me anyway so I don't see a reason why I should. The reviewers seem to be way more convincing to you.
    And how can you know? Maybe if you're assertive about it, i will listen. Because this is not about agree or disagree.

    Now, if you base the game on subjective matters, like preferences, then you might be right. Be objective.

  13. Loek is offline Alleged estate fetishist
    Location: The Netherlands
    Posts: 631

    #73

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    Well you asked for it, so here goes. Some of this might be based on what I feel myself though:

    1. Graphics. Not a giant upgrade from FM6 because it already showed the edge of the Xbox One console, so I expect a great boost in this when it rolls out on the One X. However, especially in the skies the graphics seem to profit from some upgrades. Especially in cloudy situations.

    2. Car list. I was sceptic about this one but especially after seeing that FM6 had around 450 cars, a 700+ car list ex DLC is still a really decent upgrade. Quantity over quality maybe slightly, but variety is key. Plus, the DLC's are bound to be exciting.

    3. Car dynamics. Although the exhaust movement is a tad overdone, the fact that spoilers, exhausts, other light exterior things and especially aerials, move according to the movement of the car.

    4. Tracks: no tracks removed, old tracks upgraded, new tracks added, old tracks brought back. Win/win/win/win on the case of tracks.

    5. Track based Forzavista: a nice addon, not bothersome when you don't need it, very cool if you like it.

    6. Driver Gear: everybody loves collections. And a bit extra personalization is never unnecessary.

    7. Reward systems: not too fond of the lootcrates but having them currently available for in-game credits makes them not harming at all. The wheelspin alternative is nice, it gives nice discounts on cars, or driver gear when you need it. Car collection upgrades are also nice, it means you have to actually buy or get cars to progress in getting cooler cars.

    The list is probably a bit longer but this is all I can think of right now, take it or leave it. Main point regarding the nitpicks upon graphics: let's wait with being picky over graphics until it rolls out on Xbox One X. Currently, graphics wise I can't deny it's similar to FM6, but it's because in terms of graphics, FM6 has always been really good.


    FH3 on Xbox. Xbox username is PoIestar, with a capital "i" as "L". Wanna add me, you're welcome to do so.

  14. hassan1995 is offline ( •_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)
     
    Location: Somewhere
    Posts: 2,775

    #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    Nah, it's not just the M5. Every single video i saw of Forza 7 has the overdone windshield reflection in every car. It's just a matter of the track lighting. Even the Sauber C9 has it.
    So



    talk about overdone reflections am I right?


  15. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,482

    #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by hassan1995 »
    So

    -img-

    talk about overdone reflections am I right?
    Can you please stop bringing Gran Turismo into everything?????

    Topic wasn't even about Gran Turismo, and i won't talk about it, but shall we get on the windshield reflection subject again. First thing i said about the windshield was this, which you clearly ignored, or didn't understand at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    And in all videos, you can see exaggerated windshild reflex, where you can actually see the reflex of the driver's gloves, like if the car has no dashboard at all and how the driver does not properlly holds the steering wheel (Really clear on the M5 when turning). I mean, all these things, as i can see, were better made in Forza 4 or Forza 6.
    Now, allow me to demonstrate what i meant with images.

    BMW M5 E60


    Sauber C9


    Ferrari F40 LM


    Ferrari 612 Scaglietti


    Volkswagen Touareg


    Now, allow me to explain, also with images, why is this so wrong. It's all about how it's done, and not the fact the reflection is there. Windshield reflection happens in every single vehicle that do not have a flocked dashboard, and the lighter the dash, the more reflection it will give. You, Hassan, as an automotive designer should know that, and also should know that if a windshield has so much reflection at the point to give reflection of your own hand, holding the steering wheel, something is really wrong with the windshield shape or position of the driver. But enough with lessons, right to the point.

    Notice the distances between the bottom of the windshield and the end of the dashboard reflection.


    Now, here's a real windshield reflection.


    Look how from the line of sight, the distance of the reflection is a lot bigger than you can see in the dash. And you may wonder, why? Because the reflection is supposed to be from the up view, and not a mirrored image of what you see.

    Here is another examples of windshield reflection




    Can you notice that in every single car, you likely won't see the reflection of your own hands, holding the steering wheel?

    Now, to keep it even more so in the topic, Forza 6 had the windshield reflection, and guess what? It was actually better than Forza 7. Allow me to show.



  16. RobikV3 is offline RB26DETT
    Location: Poland
    Posts: 2,522

    #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loek »
    Well you asked for it, so here goes. Some of this might be based on what I feel myself though:

    1. Graphics. Not a giant upgrade from FM6 because it already showed the edge of the Xbox One console, so I expect a great boost in this when it rolls out on the One X. However, especially in the skies the graphics seem to profit from some upgrades. Especially in cloudy situations.
    Yeah especially those 2d trees at Maple Valley look really amazing lol. Everyone keeps praising the graphics and I just dont see that amazing graphics somehow

    TDU Online again - 28.09.2014
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  17. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,545

    #77

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    Those who are playing the game and who have played previous titles know what the new game has and what it is missing best. Unfortunately it is easy to get into a argument when you also have passion for a series and this in turn can make you more unaware of any failings that may be there. Nowadays a decent graphics level is expected but of course you are going to get those people who only see that as being a fundamental instead of looking at it as whole.

    The negatives I see aren't mainly to with the visuals, they are to do with the loot boxes, the misleading pit stops, and the removing of difficulty bonuses.

    I am more likely to side with the review that talks about the reduction of racing focus than anything to do with some ugly looking trees or reflections, because as long as the game plays well and still provides the same experience the series is known for, that's all I want.

    Regarding if it's a big enough change compared to the last one, well Forza has gotten to a point where it is its own enemy here. Increases are expected all around; be it in car list, tracks and other areas. So we end up with getting what feels like a rehash with the same models and environments being included. But here's the crux, if these were to be removed then this would also receive complaints so how can they win?

    Do they trim the fat in the car list by looking to available data and statistics and bring in more modern examples to make up the numbers? Inevitably doing this will piss some off and so it's a really tricky place to be in and deal with.

    We all want what WE want. And when we don't get that, we will moan and be vocal about it.

    It also doesn't help matters that games are dropped on the release date and then fixed later. Where we have the devs waiting to see what their playerbase finds and the feedback they give. With the latter that can be a good thing, but it is quite annoying to feel like players are basically testing these games at times when they hit retail.
    I'm a bit mental.

  18. sti228 is offline Sim Racer
    Location: Georgia/Tbilisi
    Posts: 1,124

    #78

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  19. sti228 is offline Sim Racer
    Location: Georgia/Tbilisi
    Posts: 1,124

    #79

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  20. sti228 is offline Sim Racer
    Location: Georgia/Tbilisi
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    #80

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