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  1. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,382

    #1

    Default Gran Turismo - Is Polyphony Digital/Kaz "arrogant" or "brave" with it?

    GT stagnated for ages, never really improving or adding what their fans wanted, but then Forza came around, and the bar was raised. Sure GT had the looks, the style and its photo mode but step back from that and it was still the same as it's always been. GT, PD and Kaz especially are arrogant in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I really admire the beauty and craft that goes into a Gran Turismo, but we're nearing the 20th anniversary of the series and it's only now slowly starting to embrace what its competitors have been doing for a while.

    I think Sony needs to rein PD and co in a bit personally.



    [Mod edit:] Topic created from split-off comments made in the Forza Motorsport 7 Will Not Have Toyota Production Cars!! -- Posts #1-4 are originally from that discussion.
    Last edited by Diablo; 2 weeks ago at 18:48 PM. Reason: split off-topic discussion to new thread
    I'm a bit mental.


  2. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,405

    #2

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    And as for GT goes, what Diablo may see as arrogance, i sort of admire a bit, their "yolo" attitude of not "following what competitors have been doing". They remain true to themselves as a GT, not trying to follow someone's else steps. It's brave, not arrogant. Imo. Only complain i'd make, is really not taking much attention to the fans of the series. The true fans, not those who want Gran Turismo to be "Forzatized" or "Projectised". I like the fact that it's different. A Gran Turismo should always be a Gran Turismo.
    Last edited by Diablo; 2 weeks ago at 18:45 PM. Reason: removed off-topic text after copying post

  3. hassan1995 is offline ( •_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)
      
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    #3

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    I can't admire their attitude, It's not brave if they're falling behind massively, if project cars 2 does well that's going to be another game GT falls behind which it probably will, I don't want GT to fail as it was the first racing game I ever played and I love their style but they need to fix up pronto.


  4. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,405

    #4

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    I don't think GT falls behind Project Cars. Neither GT6 does falls behind Project Cars 1. Specially because the games are really different. Project Cars tries to be more serious, and fails, as you can easily drive slicks on the rain, while GT have always been more casual.

  5. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,382

    #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    And as for GT goes, what Diablo may see as arrogance, i sort of admire a bit, their "yolo" attitude of not "following what competitors have been doing". They remain true to themselves as a GT, not trying to follow someone's else steps. It's brave, not arrogant
    I don't think it's YOLO at all. It's more 'we're GT and this is how we do things - take it or leave it'. If you respect them ignoring what their fans are asking for that they enjoy seeing in other games and wish for it to come to GT then I don't know what to say to that.

    Out of interest: what are the "true" GT fans asking for?
    I'm a bit mental.

  6. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,405

    #6

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    Definetly not a Forza or a Project Cars copy. As i can see on GT Planet, main complains have always been sounds, which is improved in GT Sport, and livery editor, which is also added to GT Sport.

    Main concerns about GT Sport, have been about single player mode and the small number of cars and tracks.

    Project Cars and Assetto Corsa are different type of games. You don't buy the cars, you don't customize them. You just use them. Most similar would be Forza, but then again, apart from livery editor, i don't really see what Forza could really offer for GT players other than that. Because the rest is delivered.

    Plus, when i say it is brave, i don't say right or wrong. That can be yes, a shot in your own foot, but i think it's is better than become a copy of another game. It will be more of the same, and that, to me, is a certain shoot in your own foot. You will never be able to please everyone, and if you get too deep in want to please everyone, you will lose your essence.

    And to be fair, even though i am a huge GT fan, no doubt, i am still concerned about GT Sport and Gran Turismo future. It can be a huge hit, and a huge flaw, i have hopes, even though i think their main mistake was not really look back into the older GT's, which were responsible to make the game this "huge".

    So, yes, i still think it's brave to not fall into the common and try to keep the roots. Right or wrong? Time will show.

  7. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,382

    #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milli »
    Plus, when i say it is brave, i don't say right or wrong. That can be yes, a shot in your own foot, but i think it's is better than become a copy of another game. It will be more of the same, and that, to me, is a certain shoot in your own foot.

    And to be fair, even though i am a huge GT fan, no doubt, i am still concerned about GT Sport and Gran Turismo future. It can be a huge hit, and a huge flaw, i have hopes, even though i think their main mistake was not really look back into the older GT's, which were responsible to make the game this "huge".

    So, yes, i still think it's brave to not fall into the common and try to keep the roots. Right or wrong? Time will show.
    I now get what you meant even better than before, and to be fair, when I was talking about 'looking to their competitors' I wasn't meaning become a clone of them, but instead take inspiration from and take notice of what your own fans are calling for from them.

    To ignore that is only (imo) going to lose you some of those people, especially if you don't have anything to show as to the reason why you didn't bother to include or have a version of it in your own.

    Also, do you know what is going on with damage in GT Sport?
    I'm a bit mental.

  8. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,405

    #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo »
    I now get what you meant even better than before, and to be fair, when I was talking about 'looking to their competitors' I wasn't meaning become a clone of them, but instead take inspiration from and take notice of what your own fans are calling for from them.

    To ignore that is only (imo) going to lose you some of those people, especially if you don't have anything to show as to the reason why you didn't bother to include or have a version of it in your own.

    Also, do you know what is going on with damage in GT Sport?
    Sure thing, but to be honest, they are listening the players. Prove is those 2 things clearly improved for GT Sport (Sound and Livery editor). But seems like we just misunderstood ourselves.

    About damage, as far as i know, it's physical and visual. GT had physical damage since GT5, GT6 had it and GT Sport will also have it in a more complex way, because apparently you can choose to fix or not some things when you pit in. The visual part so far is nothing more than just dents and scratches on the paint. No flying bumpers or flying doors. Why? I don't know. I personally never really liked visual damage in games, as it ruins how the car looks.

    Played the whole Midnight Club 3 game with damage turned off, via cheat code.


    Edit: And really, it's quite complicated to really judge a game from it's Beta. Sure, some beta are exactly what the game turns out to be, (TDU2, i am looking at you), but from videos i saw of GT Sport, from talks i had with people who played, all these sorts of things, like, Damage, BoP (Balance of Performance) and other things, they seem to be "editable" by the player, and many videos and reviews claim that it will be that way.

    GT Sport Beta added the damage in an update, but it was only "partial", because the physical damage fixed itself after a few minutes. Which was a feature you could enable or disable in GT6. In a race of 3 or 4 laps, you have no time to pit in and recover the time lost because a crash, so i think it was sensible to use the "light" damage instead of the "full" one (Pitting in is the only way to fix it). But you can find people claiming that is how the game will be. Same happens with BoP in online races, people are concerned about it, yet, you can spot in videos, a box where it says "BoP On", if there is an "On", there sure is an "Off". Which means, you're free to run as much performance you want.

    I have a feeling that this GT Sport Beta is not even 50% of the final game, and all those reviews, that review it as a final game, will be just worthless.
    Last edited by Milli; 2 weeks ago at 19:59 PM.

  9. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
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    #9

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    Only now listening... almost 20 years later! Ah well, better late than never I guess.

    And I also don't like my vehicle to get banged up in games BUT I still want damage. I want to see the wounds of that race I just did, or my bumper on the next lap after some hard-fought racing with an opponent and to careen over the side of a cliff or barrel-roll down a steep embankment several times. Racing is sometimes carnage after all!
    I'm a bit mental.

  10. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,405

    #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo »
    Only now listening... almost 20 years later! Ah well, better late than never I guess.
    And on that, i can agree 120%. Better late than never.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo »
    And I also don't like my vehicle to get banged up in games BUT I still want damage. I want to see the wounds of that race I just did, or my bumper on the next lap after some hard-fought racing with an opponent and to careen over the side of a cliff or barrel-roll down a steep embankment several times. Racing is sometimes carnage after all!
    I also enjoy a race battle, "almost" BTCC style, i just don't want to see my car ruined because of that. But i guess i understand why people like it.

  11. Dextcloud is offline Hot Hatch
    Location: France
    Posts: 122

    #11

    Default

    I have seen a video of GT sport and i can't hear any improvement in the sounds ! Sounds are not a creation, sounds must be RECORDED ! If they had recorded the sounds, the problem would not exist. They prefer making a lot of cars with artificial sounds wich is stupid instead of doing a good job !

    It is better to have a game with less cars but cars that are realistic to drive !
    I would rather play a racing game with only 1 car made with care, with a perfect realism and a good real sound than Gran Turismo wich features thousands of cars wich are not enjoyable because of their awful vaccum cleaner sounds !

    That is always the same problem in this world : it is hard to find good professionnals ! People don't make their job with care and don't make their job untill the end.

    If they want to make a good racing game, then they should work on recording the engine sounds ! That's all.
    An engine sound can't be created. You can only get it by recording it on the real car !

    This is the job that is done and very well done in Forza, the game wich has the most realistic sound bank !
    Last edited by Diablo; 2 weeks ago at 15:18 PM. Reason: removal of inappropriate language

  12. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
    Posts: 5,405

    #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextcloud »
    I have seen a video of GT sport and i can't hear any improvement in the sounds ! Sounds are not a creation, sounds must be RECORDED ! If they had recorded the sounds, the problem would not exist. They prefer making a lot of cars with artificial sounds wich is stupid instead of doing a good job !

    It is better to have a game with less cars but cars that are realistic to drive !
    I would rather play a racing game with only 1 car made with care, with a perfect realism and a good real sound than Gran Turismo wich features thousands of cars wich are not enjoyable because of their awful vaccum cleaner sounds !

    That is always the same problem in this world : it is hard to find good professionnals ! People don't make their job with care and don't make their job untill the end.

    If they want to make a good racing game, then they should work on recording the engine sounds ! That's all.
    An engine sound can't be created. You can only get it by recording it on the real car !

    This is the job that is done and very well done in Forza, the game wich has the most realistic sound bank !
    You are clearly deaf.



    And also unninformed:

    Gran Turismo do record car sounds, always did, since GT1.

    And before you start to complain about the whinning noise in the BMW Z4 video, are you familiar with straight cut racing trasmissions? Let me help you with that aswell. This is how straight cut gears (Racing transmissions) sound like.


    Also:


    The sound is similar as every car reverse gear, because those, are also straight cut gears. So, really, before you say something like that, without a single base about it, make a little research before.

  13. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,382

    #13

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    @Dextcloud there are improvements in the sounds and they hired a former Forza sound-tech to help them with it. And yeah like the above says, they do record them but generally these recordings were never utilised well for some reason.
    I'm a bit mental.

  14. hassan1995 is offline ( •_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)
      
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    #14

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    Some sounds are good and some sounds are really meh from what I experienced in the beta.


  15. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,382

    #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by hassan1995 »
    Some sounds are good and some sounds are really meh from what I experienced in the beta.
    With the updates that came to it didn't some of those sounds get better in cases? Think I read that somewhere.
    I'm a bit mental.

  16. hassan1995 is offline ( •_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■(⌐■_■)
      
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    #16

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    The Nissan gtr got worse , it was a mix some got better and some became terrible.


  17. Milli is offline An eternal apprentice.
     
    Location: Jacareí, São Paulo
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    #17

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    Ignore the comparision, because it's non-sense. Forza is a GT3 racing car, while GT Sport is a GT4, which means, a normal, slightly tuned. Sound of the GT-R seems very decent to my ears.

  18. Dextcloud is offline Hot Hatch
    Location: France
    Posts: 122

    #18

    Default

    Always the same. You compare 2 different cars :-(
    "Decent" is not realistic !
    Okay, this GTR has a better sound than other cars but Players want realism not a "decent" to your ears sound.

  19. Diablo is offline I'm Delicious!
     
    Location: Scotland, UK
    Posts: 20,382

    #19

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    "Decent" in Gran Turismo terms is monumental, Dext. It's not something that should be accepted but it's a whole lot better than what has come before.
    I'm a bit mental.

  20. Ryzza5 is offline .
      
    Location: .
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    #20

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    pretend race cars.net/2017/08/05/say-goodbye-to-classic-gran-turismo/

    Supposedly GT Sport is not like a Prologue game, there is no GT7 planned at the moment.


 

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